Commenting on an old post here, but it is now worth the commenting. There is now more heat on Cuomo to resign. Again, his sexual boorishness (I don't see John Weaver-like predation here...yet) is the leading cause although his hiding data about COVID deaths chills me far more.
But more to the point, my earlier assertion that the removal of Franken without a proper due process has born fruit. How do I know? Read it, and weep at Gillibrand's sudden coyness about calling out her own governor on this very issue: https://apnews.com/article/kirsten-gillibrand-andrew-cuomo-al-franken-resignation-a3735f0f78ed6a8949b34cbc82239023. Gillibrand's right to serve as a spokesperson on women's claims of harassment will likely sustain serious damage. This is a real shame in light of great work she had/has been doing on sexual assault in the military, work that absolutely cannot stop.
A few items--and I'm glad to see this exchange on the limits of eating one's own. So I'll make a few points.
1) Al Franken should have at least received the benefit of some form of due process in response to the allegations. His defenestration was protective politics by the Democrats. It still may have been the right decision, but it should have undergone a fairer, more judicial process.
2) By way of counterpoint, I was not in favor of the eating of our own that was consuming the Virginia state leadership in February 2019. As deplorable as the incidents were, specifically Northam's and Herring's childishly and boorishly racist blackface incidents as students (Fairfax's sexual assault accusation was much more serious), I didn't think the two rose to the level of resignation-worthy. (I similarly thought the same about lame calls for Biden to drop out in response to the "handsy" accusations thrown his way.)
3) All of the above points to the fact that each incident deserves inspection on a case-by-case basis, with not so much benefit of the doubt as a full factual consideration before engaging in a chest-beating act of self- (or other-) immolation, with some account taken for the true scale of the offense.
4) Andrew Cuomo's situation is such a one. The sexual assault charges--as AOC put it--are indeed "disturbing." But I'm sorry to say that these pale before the possibility that Cuomo's willful disregard of public health warnings may have significantly raised New York's death toll, and doctoring data to hide that fact is a cruel betrayal of the public trust (and a furtherance of public health endangerment). For those who are not aware how badly Cuomo fumbled what was already an open secret (as did De Blasio, who is in no position to name call), just read the New Yorker article on the disparate responses of New York and Washington states to the same public health information delivered at the same time to their respective leaders. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/05/04/seattles-leaders-let-scientists-take-the-lead-new-yorks-did-not. Read it and truly weep for those who died unnecessarily.
5) Cuomo holds grudges, has enemies, and has behaved in ways that resemble Trump's bullying manner. That no longer wears well. (T.J. Ducklo anyone?) Cuomo differs little from CT's ex-governor Dannell Malloy, who despite the Democratic label and liberal tendencies, earned the distinction of being the least popular governor in the United States owing to his legendary capacity for holding grudges and making enemies, including in his own party. Cuomo is already despised by progressives for his long-time complicity with traitor Democrats in the NY legislature (that the justice Democrats would ultimately depose) and those once complicit Republicans are probably happy to see Cuomo burn. Of course, his popularity (or lack thereof) ought not bear on whether Cuomo should resign or not. That should be based on facts (to be gathered by an independently appointed commission courtesy of Letitia James). But make no mistake, Cuomo looks little different from the bullying Amy Klobuchar for whom the knives came out when she thought she could run for president without her horribleness as an employer emerging--talk about, quite literally, emotional and physical abuse of staff. (One wonders if she should resign for such disgusting behavior. How bad was her behavior? This bad: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/03/telling-reactions-tales-amy-klobuchars-rage/584104/.) Cuomo doesn't have much in the way of "character references" to ameliorate the cries for his resignation from fellow Democrats or Republicans.
"(At first, it seemed like Franken had been targeted by right-wing saboteurs, but two years after quitting, nearly 10 women had come forward to accuse him of myriad crimes.)"
Sigh. It's as if Jane Mayer and John Mashey never laid out the facts about the accusations against Al Franken:
The whole thing was incredibly "transactional"-- Gillibrand and Schumer made political moves, forcing Franken to resign without getting the investigation he asked for and deserved.
What the hell does his Senate seat have to do with anything? Can't you conceive of a notion of justice independent of politics? And within the context of politics, Roger Stone weaponized #metoo against Franken and the Democrats, who ate one of their best interrogators. This isn't hard to understand by anyone willing to do so. You do some good political analysis, but you have some huge blind spots and a gigantic ego that doesn't allow you to back down from anything. Speaking of which, saying "the left" might be right does not logically negate the possibility that you bashed the left--that's absurd.
I won't respond to you again--it's like smashing my head on a brick wall.
Nice strawman ... I have no need to defend Franken and that's not what I'm doing. It's about what the facts are. "End of story" is the line of anti-intellectuals and arrogant poseurs.
100 percent DISAGREE. Firstly this Cuomo foaming feels like Roger Stone nonsense to me. THIS IS A HIT ON CUOMO.
Secondly, even if true he should not resign (though he will, Democrats are THAT suicidal) As long as Gym Jordan and Brett Kavanaugh have jobs WE CANNOT GIVE IN TO THIS. Cuomo should apologize and move on.
GOPs PAY THE PRICE OR NO ONE PAYS THE PRICE....and no, I do not care about the "morality" of any of this. I understand EXACTLY what I am saying. But war is war. and we are at war. The women can sue him later.
We are about to have two Democratic governors from two major Democratic states forced out while FAR WORSE GOP GOVS STAY PUT. GOP governors who KILLED WITH NEGLIGENCE while Cuomo and Newsom are ripped to shreds. My God, Democrats are pathetic and it's all virtual signaling bullshit.
not the same thing. This is pure self destruction. Cuomo was the ONE national voice of sanity last March. But we're gonna crucify him because he said some stupid shit. This is why Dems lose so many winnable elections.
.
One way is make-believing he didn’t win.
or
One way is making believe he didn’t win.
Hmmm . . .
.
Commenting on an old post here, but it is now worth the commenting. There is now more heat on Cuomo to resign. Again, his sexual boorishness (I don't see John Weaver-like predation here...yet) is the leading cause although his hiding data about COVID deaths chills me far more.
But more to the point, my earlier assertion that the removal of Franken without a proper due process has born fruit. How do I know? Read it, and weep at Gillibrand's sudden coyness about calling out her own governor on this very issue: https://apnews.com/article/kirsten-gillibrand-andrew-cuomo-al-franken-resignation-a3735f0f78ed6a8949b34cbc82239023. Gillibrand's right to serve as a spokesperson on women's claims of harassment will likely sustain serious damage. This is a real shame in light of great work she had/has been doing on sexual assault in the military, work that absolutely cannot stop.
A few items--and I'm glad to see this exchange on the limits of eating one's own. So I'll make a few points.
1) Al Franken should have at least received the benefit of some form of due process in response to the allegations. His defenestration was protective politics by the Democrats. It still may have been the right decision, but it should have undergone a fairer, more judicial process.
2) By way of counterpoint, I was not in favor of the eating of our own that was consuming the Virginia state leadership in February 2019. As deplorable as the incidents were, specifically Northam's and Herring's childishly and boorishly racist blackface incidents as students (Fairfax's sexual assault accusation was much more serious), I didn't think the two rose to the level of resignation-worthy. (I similarly thought the same about lame calls for Biden to drop out in response to the "handsy" accusations thrown his way.)
3) All of the above points to the fact that each incident deserves inspection on a case-by-case basis, with not so much benefit of the doubt as a full factual consideration before engaging in a chest-beating act of self- (or other-) immolation, with some account taken for the true scale of the offense.
4) Andrew Cuomo's situation is such a one. The sexual assault charges--as AOC put it--are indeed "disturbing." But I'm sorry to say that these pale before the possibility that Cuomo's willful disregard of public health warnings may have significantly raised New York's death toll, and doctoring data to hide that fact is a cruel betrayal of the public trust (and a furtherance of public health endangerment). For those who are not aware how badly Cuomo fumbled what was already an open secret (as did De Blasio, who is in no position to name call), just read the New Yorker article on the disparate responses of New York and Washington states to the same public health information delivered at the same time to their respective leaders. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/05/04/seattles-leaders-let-scientists-take-the-lead-new-yorks-did-not. Read it and truly weep for those who died unnecessarily.
5) Cuomo holds grudges, has enemies, and has behaved in ways that resemble Trump's bullying manner. That no longer wears well. (T.J. Ducklo anyone?) Cuomo differs little from CT's ex-governor Dannell Malloy, who despite the Democratic label and liberal tendencies, earned the distinction of being the least popular governor in the United States owing to his legendary capacity for holding grudges and making enemies, including in his own party. Cuomo is already despised by progressives for his long-time complicity with traitor Democrats in the NY legislature (that the justice Democrats would ultimately depose) and those once complicit Republicans are probably happy to see Cuomo burn. Of course, his popularity (or lack thereof) ought not bear on whether Cuomo should resign or not. That should be based on facts (to be gathered by an independently appointed commission courtesy of Letitia James). But make no mistake, Cuomo looks little different from the bullying Amy Klobuchar for whom the knives came out when she thought she could run for president without her horribleness as an employer emerging--talk about, quite literally, emotional and physical abuse of staff. (One wonders if she should resign for such disgusting behavior. How bad was her behavior? This bad: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/03/telling-reactions-tales-amy-klobuchars-rage/584104/.) Cuomo doesn't have much in the way of "character references" to ameliorate the cries for his resignation from fellow Democrats or Republicans.
AMEN. I am uncomfortable with MSNBC and others welcoming Franken back into the fold until I see authentic remorse and reconciliation.
Yep. I think it's best when the Lieutenant Governor is in the same party as the Governor. NC has this wrong, in my view.
"(At first, it seemed like Franken had been targeted by right-wing saboteurs, but two years after quitting, nearly 10 women had come forward to accuse him of myriad crimes.)"
Sigh. It's as if Jane Mayer and John Mashey never laid out the facts about the accusations against Al Franken:
https://twitter.com/JohnMashey/status/1003739017664315392
Mayer's piece, if I remember, was long on regret on the part of Dems.
Then maybe you should reread it. And the Mashey thread.
Also, Terry Gross's interview of Mayer: https://www.npr.org/2019/07/25/745232345/journalist-jane-mayer-on-the-many-mysteries-in-the-accusations-against-al-franke
The whole thing was incredibly "transactional"-- Gillibrand and Schumer made political moves, forcing Franken to resign without getting the investigation he asked for and deserved.
I really don't understand the need to defend Franken. He was replaced by another Democrat. End of story.
What the hell does his Senate seat have to do with anything? Can't you conceive of a notion of justice independent of politics? And within the context of politics, Roger Stone weaponized #metoo against Franken and the Democrats, who ate one of their best interrogators. This isn't hard to understand by anyone willing to do so. You do some good political analysis, but you have some huge blind spots and a gigantic ego that doesn't allow you to back down from anything. Speaking of which, saying "the left" might be right does not logically negate the possibility that you bashed the left--that's absurd.
I won't respond to you again--it's like smashing my head on a brick wall.
?
Nice strawman ... I have no need to defend Franken and that's not what I'm doing. It's about what the facts are. "End of story" is the line of anti-intellectuals and arrogant poseurs.
??
100 percent DISAGREE. Firstly this Cuomo foaming feels like Roger Stone nonsense to me. THIS IS A HIT ON CUOMO.
Secondly, even if true he should not resign (though he will, Democrats are THAT suicidal) As long as Gym Jordan and Brett Kavanaugh have jobs WE CANNOT GIVE IN TO THIS. Cuomo should apologize and move on.
GOPs PAY THE PRICE OR NO ONE PAYS THE PRICE....and no, I do not care about the "morality" of any of this. I understand EXACTLY what I am saying. But war is war. and we are at war. The women can sue him later.
We are about to have two Democratic governors from two major Democratic states forced out while FAR WORSE GOP GOVS STAY PUT. GOP governors who KILLED WITH NEGLIGENCE while Cuomo and Newsom are ripped to shreds. My God, Democrats are pathetic and it's all virtual signaling bullshit.
No No No No NO!!!
"Our side shouldn't be have to live up to its stated morals so long as the other side doesn't" is not the brilliant argument you seem to think it is.
Lt. govs come from the same party.
Not in NC
Yes! I was thinking of NY
not the same thing. This is pure self destruction. Cuomo was the ONE national voice of sanity last March. But we're gonna crucify him because he said some stupid shit. This is why Dems lose so many winnable elections.