Thanks for elaborating. I'd read the article and though Trumpstock attracted relatively small numbers, the ferocity of their misunderstanding and hatred was frightening. I'm perpetually ashamed at what Trump has wrought; only hope that resisters can reclaim our democracy before this new Brownshirt iteration can really flourish.
I have been saying this for a while -- really, since Trump was 'elected' (I can never use that phrase without quote marks). And if he is 'elected' in 2020 -- through multiparty candidates splitting the anti-Trump vote, voter suppression, purging of likely Democratic voters, Putinesque hacking of the vote count itself, pick your poison -- there will be no limits on what could happen. (If he loses -- and admits to losing -- that will have its own bloody consequences.)
Not to be even more of a downer, but what I worry about is how our institutions will react to this. I'm sure Trump has many supporters in law enforcement and the military. Where will their loyalties lie when blood is spilled? How far will Trump appointed judges go to protect them, if it even gets to the courts? Either way, we're in for a very rough period over the next few years. And people who have been the most public in their opposition to Trump will be the ones who are targeted first.
it is really frustrating to hold a conversation with die-hard Trump supporters. There is one I sometimes talk to at a local Starbucks. Anything by mainstream print media (eg, NYT, WaPo, AP, Bloomberg News, etc), he won’t believe, but he will believe Fox News, Limbaugh, Breitbart, and, of course, Trump, liar-in-chief. And, according to him, the deep state (including the FBI, CIA, and state dept) are just part of a vast conspiracy, so evidence coming from them is not to be believed either. BTW, he is African-American, late 60’s, Vietnam veteran (wounded in combat, and still with some residual health issues), and was in the military for 20+ years. And, a nice guy. Conversation never gets heated.
And, he believes that if Trump is removed as the result of the senate trial, there would a civil war.
In these conversations, it is difficult for me to not come across as an arrogant elitist asshole, which is unproductive.
One of the main reasons why I read the Editorial Board is John Stoehr's ability to recognize and bluntly articulate what we're dealing with. I don't fear these people because we know they exist and who they are. Recognizing the threat they pose is the first step to being prepared if and when the proverbial sh*t hits the fan.
My biggest fear is two-fold: a mainstream media that treats these people and by the extension the oval office occupant with "deference and understanding" instead of seeing their fascistic impulses as reality and a complacent Democratic party and its voters who are caught up in finding perfect candidates and policy positions instead of turning our full political arsenal on the real threat. For me, witnessing these dynamics is a replay of what happened in late 1920's-early 1930's Germany where too many ignored or downplayed the lust for violence and retribution of the Nazis and their followers. The mainstream media, Democrats, and liberals in general need to wake the f*ck up asap and understand that these people see politics literally as a blood sport and are happy to spill our blood to accomplish their goals.
With all respect to John Stoehr, I'm enjoying the commentary as much as his original posts. Living in a ruby red area of a potentially blue state makes me question my sanity on a daily basis. Happy New Year fellow patriots...am truly looking forward to 2020.
Thanks for clearing up my confusions about the initial Barry story.
Of course, I do understand that was just leading to your larger point, as developed in today's message.
Thanks for elaborating. I'd read the article and though Trumpstock attracted relatively small numbers, the ferocity of their misunderstanding and hatred was frightening. I'm perpetually ashamed at what Trump has wrought; only hope that resisters can reclaim our democracy before this new Brownshirt iteration can really flourish.
I have been saying this for a while -- really, since Trump was 'elected' (I can never use that phrase without quote marks). And if he is 'elected' in 2020 -- through multiparty candidates splitting the anti-Trump vote, voter suppression, purging of likely Democratic voters, Putinesque hacking of the vote count itself, pick your poison -- there will be no limits on what could happen. (If he loses -- and admits to losing -- that will have its own bloody consequences.)
Not to be even more of a downer, but what I worry about is how our institutions will react to this. I'm sure Trump has many supporters in law enforcement and the military. Where will their loyalties lie when blood is spilled? How far will Trump appointed judges go to protect them, if it even gets to the courts? Either way, we're in for a very rough period over the next few years. And people who have been the most public in their opposition to Trump will be the ones who are targeted first.
Be safe.
it is really frustrating to hold a conversation with die-hard Trump supporters. There is one I sometimes talk to at a local Starbucks. Anything by mainstream print media (eg, NYT, WaPo, AP, Bloomberg News, etc), he won’t believe, but he will believe Fox News, Limbaugh, Breitbart, and, of course, Trump, liar-in-chief. And, according to him, the deep state (including the FBI, CIA, and state dept) are just part of a vast conspiracy, so evidence coming from them is not to be believed either. BTW, he is African-American, late 60’s, Vietnam veteran (wounded in combat, and still with some residual health issues), and was in the military for 20+ years. And, a nice guy. Conversation never gets heated.
And, he believes that if Trump is removed as the result of the senate trial, there would a civil war.
In these conversations, it is difficult for me to not come across as an arrogant elitist asshole, which is unproductive.
On the same theme as the NYT article, there is this one on the lawfare blog from Oct 2nd:
https://www.lawfareblog.com/armed-militias-are-taking-trumps-civil-war-tweets-seriously
One of the main reasons why I read the Editorial Board is John Stoehr's ability to recognize and bluntly articulate what we're dealing with. I don't fear these people because we know they exist and who they are. Recognizing the threat they pose is the first step to being prepared if and when the proverbial sh*t hits the fan.
My biggest fear is two-fold: a mainstream media that treats these people and by the extension the oval office occupant with "deference and understanding" instead of seeing their fascistic impulses as reality and a complacent Democratic party and its voters who are caught up in finding perfect candidates and policy positions instead of turning our full political arsenal on the real threat. For me, witnessing these dynamics is a replay of what happened in late 1920's-early 1930's Germany where too many ignored or downplayed the lust for violence and retribution of the Nazis and their followers. The mainstream media, Democrats, and liberals in general need to wake the f*ck up asap and understand that these people see politics literally as a blood sport and are happy to spill our blood to accomplish their goals.
With all respect to John Stoehr, I'm enjoying the commentary as much as his original posts. Living in a ruby red area of a potentially blue state makes me question my sanity on a daily basis. Happy New Year fellow patriots...am truly looking forward to 2020.