I get what you're saying, and, as the media has repeatedly pointed out, it only takes one juror for a mistrial. I think most of us are hoping that's the worst possible outcome. An acquittal on all counts would cause "unrest" of a magnitude I don't want to guess at. The fact that the blue line broke down with police witnesses testifying against Chauvin gives me hope that this case will be different from all the compelling data you've laid out--but it's also a way of saying that Chauvin doesn't represent the systemic problems of policing. The prosecution already built that argument into their closing words. It's just painful.
After we just had 30,000 white folk nearly decapitate the line of secession of the U.S. government and then were allowed to go home, I think all this concern about "unrest" makes John's point. The fact is that the response of American Blacks to the oppression they have suffered has been extremely muted.
Hopefully people who said this sort of thing beforehand will critically examine their thought processes to see where they went wrong. Myself, I considered a hung jury to be a distinct possibility as it always is (I've been on some juries that came close) but acquittal to be outside the realm of possibility in this particular case, and certainly would have thought long and hard about how I could be so wrong had that been the verdict.
What do you mean by, "For many white people, perhaps most white people, being scared of Black people, due to the fact that Black people exist, is understandable?"
That’s my question, too. I mean I get the idea the our society has criminalized being black, the majority of urban centers have poor neighborhoods populated with non-white residents, and crimes associated with poverty are often blamed on skin color. But I think all people know (or should know) that regardless of any physical differences we all want the same things in terms of happiness, health, and to be loved.
Even if you thought that neo-Nazis want happiness, health, and to be loved, you might still be scared of them, right? So if a lot of white people believe that Blacks are inherently a threat, they would think it makes sense to be scared of them ... there are certainly a lot of white folk who act like that, and also seem to think that it makes sense to be scared of Mexicans and other Latinx, Palestinians and Arabs, LGBTQ+ folks, etc. And a lot of right wing Christians think that liberals are actual spawn of the devil, so what you think all people know seems rather naive to me.
I giving voice to people who would be sympathetic to police officers who say they are afraid of Black people, so afraid that any use of force is justifiable.
I think the odds were against Chauvin (and I thought so before the verdict came in) *in this specific case* because the pressure from we the people was so great that the state actually charged him and put on a competent prosecution ... that's extremely rare.
I agree with all you wrote. And the EXTREME rapidity with (in?) which the jury returned reinforced my expectation. But yeah, jurors believed their own eyes. I could not comment on the video itself because I did not watch it (I do not watch snuff films) but I am forever grateful that witnesses took on the awful task in the first place. And that simply proves the value of handheld personal still and video cameras. No doubt the cops will be pushing for blanket confiscation of such devices during every such episode in future.
BTW, that still photo of the knee on the neck refutes the claim of following department training/policy – NO agency would train that specific position.
I get what you're saying, and, as the media has repeatedly pointed out, it only takes one juror for a mistrial. I think most of us are hoping that's the worst possible outcome. An acquittal on all counts would cause "unrest" of a magnitude I don't want to guess at. The fact that the blue line broke down with police witnesses testifying against Chauvin gives me hope that this case will be different from all the compelling data you've laid out--but it's also a way of saying that Chauvin doesn't represent the systemic problems of policing. The prosecution already built that argument into their closing words. It's just painful.
After we just had 30,000 white folk nearly decapitate the line of secession of the U.S. government and then were allowed to go home, I think all this concern about "unrest" makes John's point. The fact is that the response of American Blacks to the oppression they have suffered has been extremely muted.
Re the Chauvin trial, I am afraid I see little to no chance for anything but acquittal or a hung jury.
Hopefully people who said this sort of thing beforehand will critically examine their thought processes to see where they went wrong. Myself, I considered a hung jury to be a distinct possibility as it always is (I've been on some juries that came close) but acquittal to be outside the realm of possibility in this particular case, and certainly would have thought long and hard about how I could be so wrong had that been the verdict.
What do you mean by, "For many white people, perhaps most white people, being scared of Black people, due to the fact that Black people exist, is understandable?"
That’s my question, too. I mean I get the idea the our society has criminalized being black, the majority of urban centers have poor neighborhoods populated with non-white residents, and crimes associated with poverty are often blamed on skin color. But I think all people know (or should know) that regardless of any physical differences we all want the same things in terms of happiness, health, and to be loved.
Even if you thought that neo-Nazis want happiness, health, and to be loved, you might still be scared of them, right? So if a lot of white people believe that Blacks are inherently a threat, they would think it makes sense to be scared of them ... there are certainly a lot of white folk who act like that, and also seem to think that it makes sense to be scared of Mexicans and other Latinx, Palestinians and Arabs, LGBTQ+ folks, etc. And a lot of right wing Christians think that liberals are actual spawn of the devil, so what you think all people know seems rather naive to me.
He means that many or even most white people think that it makes sense to be scared of Black people ... he's not speaking of his own belief.
I giving voice to people who would be sympathetic to police officers who say they are afraid of Black people, so afraid that any use of force is justifiable.
I think the odds were against Chauvin (and I thought so before the verdict came in) *in this specific case* because the pressure from we the people was so great that the state actually charged him and put on a competent prosecution ... that's extremely rare.
I agree with all you wrote. And the EXTREME rapidity with (in?) which the jury returned reinforced my expectation. But yeah, jurors believed their own eyes. I could not comment on the video itself because I did not watch it (I do not watch snuff films) but I am forever grateful that witnesses took on the awful task in the first place. And that simply proves the value of handheld personal still and video cameras. No doubt the cops will be pushing for blanket confiscation of such devices during every such episode in future.
BTW, that still photo of the knee on the neck refutes the claim of following department training/policy – NO agency would train that specific position.